Bigotry Trumps War 12
I have not made time to delve into the Immigration Bill, but apparently it’s creating a stir in the Wingnut community.
Disclaimer: I am personally certain that much of the opposition to immigration, both legal and illegal, is founded in bigotry. Historically, each wave of immigrants has looked with suspicion at succeeding waves of immigrants. Hence, the Know-Nothings (spiritual fathers of the current Republican Party.)
There is little or no evidence that illegal immigration poses a security threat. Remember that the 9/11 hijackers all entered the country legally.
I do not condone violating the law (except, of course, for my own convenience), but there is little or no evidence that Mexicans seeking work in the United States pose much of a security threat.
And with that long-winded introduction, I point you towards Phillybits.
May 19, 2007 at 9:29 pm
Should we continue having customs offices at the borders?
May 21, 2007 at 8:11 am
Ok, this post has bugged me since I first saw it, yesterday morning. You tell me, am I a bigot if:
I’m leary of walking past a group of older teens, wearing what appears to be gang colors, & can’t understand a word they are saying, because of the language being spoken? I don’t give a royal rats butt if it’s Asian, Spanish, or whatever.
I don’t want live chickens in a store, to be killed onsite, because that’s how it’s done in the country they come from?
I believe it’s WRONG for masses of people to break the laws getting here, then give them a ‘free pass’, to collect even more benefits than they already do. You say they don’t? Have you looked at the county hospitals lately?
I believe it’s wrong for the foreign born, who will not learn the language of the place they live, then get full day of preschool to get them up to speed, for free, while a child who speaks English has to pay for it.
I believe it’s wrong for anyone to buy documents from another person, & jeopardize the benefits the rightful owner collects, so they can work here illegally.
I believe if this country is so great to them, why would they want to make it just like the country they left, to have a better life?? It makes no sense to me.
So tell me, am I a bigot?
May 21, 2007 at 6:24 pm
I have no reason to think that you are a bigot. You seem to be a really nice lady.
But please note that I used obligatory weasel wording, such as “much of.”
As for live chickens, remember, I grew up on a farm. It seems to me perfectly okay for persons to know that their dinner came from a living, breathing creature and did not spring wrapped in celophane from the mind of Zeus to the shelf in Super Fresh, but that’s a whole nother issue.
———————————-
Bigotry is all around us. But we have to open our eyes to see it.
Check this out for some facts about the immigration issue.
And check this out for the bigotry element. Please read the full story. It’s not pretty, but neither is bigotry.
Oh, yeah, just as an afterthought, the SPLC is the real deal. It’s founders gave up lucrative careers in law to fight for justice. I support them as much as I can.
May 21, 2007 at 7:13 pm
There will also be bigots on all sides of the issue. There will be people who get the creeps when they see a Mexican and wish they would go home. There will be people who will gladly court the Mexican vote but never learn Spanish or strike up a personal friendship with a Mexican. There will be people who give Mexicans jobs here but would never live next door to one.
But as far as I am concerned, in order to see the illegal immigration issue as a bigotry one, you have to give it as little serious thought as possible. It’s actually an important issue that goes straight to the core of what it means to be a citizen in our country, and the real divide is between people who want to discuss it intelligently and people who just want to play it for political gain.
May 21, 2007 at 8:05 pm
First off, thank you.
I read them. The trash that’s put out to “support their position” is ludicrous. Hopefully, most people will recognize it as such.
The man in the story, Barnett(?), got less than he deserved, but what he did get, financial compensation, is what he would pay attention to. Nothing else would work for someone like him, & he will never stop.
All of the incidents I mentioned in my response are happening in the Denver metro area. People do have the right to try to better their lives. I would LOVE to better my own. If they want to move here, fine. Do it legally. LEARN THE LANGUAGE, don’t expect better treatment because they won’t. (I’ve seen people come into the PetsMart I go to expect the sales people to understand their Spanish, & they give the sales people who don’t dirty looks.) My ancestors had to learn English. The Irish didn’t, but the German’s did.
As for the live chickens, ICK! Plus, they are filthy birds, if looking at Brians are any example.
I think I better go put my nose in a book. I’ve already been threatened with an attitude adjustment. Hmph!
May 21, 2007 at 8:54 pm
Check out Polman, if you haven’t already done so.
May 21, 2007 at 11:13 pm
1. We know that drugs and humans are smuggled across the border into the US. We know guns are smuggled across the border into Mexico. How we can say there is no evidence that this is a situation open to terrorism, I have no idea.
2. We know that there are illegal Mexican aliens who are lured into indentured servanthood here. With no guest worker status, (and none of the orientation that could be provided with it,) the oppressed have no hope of justice. ALL Mexican (and other foreign) workers here should be registered with the government and have understandable instructions on how to get help if they are abused. If we don’t know they are here then we don’t know if they understand their rights.
3. We know that Mexicans often die in the desert when they circumvent customs. It is criminal to allow that just to get their cheap labor and their votes.
4. We know that Americans living in the desert along the Mexico border are often awakened in the middle of the night by illegals demanding to use telephones, toilets, etc upon their unlawful entry. There is no guarantee that these illegals are honest, hard working people in some romantic pursuit of the American dream. Some are just crooks. Those Americans along the border deserve protection whether they vote Democrat or not.
These are serious issues and not one of them is solved by blanket accusations of bigotry.
May 22, 2007 at 2:32 am
So little of that post has to do with the issue of illegal immigration. What’s more, the part’s that do seem to imply the current system for the lawful immigration into these United States from Central America works.
You’re right about them being serious issues, you’re right about them not being solved by bigotry. You’re wrong if you think they have as much to do with them as they do with us though.
May 22, 2007 at 11:30 am
bigot = One who is strongly partial to one’s own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.
I agree with you frank.
I started quite a brew haha on this too….
and if people don’t think they are bigot, maybe they are just plain ignorant?
May 22, 2007 at 8:47 pm
I’ve been busy racking up billable hours and dealing with contractors, so I haven’t kept up with comments the last few days, but I do now have a few random thoughts.
There are many reasons why persons of good will can be concerned about our porous borders without being bigoted or prejudiced in any way.
If we look at this country’s history as regards immigration, we find the country’s policy suffused with bigotry. This link summarizes it well.
Succintly put, around the turn of the last century, just about anyone was let in, as long as they were white.
Later on, in the early 20th Century, a quota system that favored Northern Europeans was put in place. Remember, that was the time when persons spoke of the “German race,” the “Italian race,” and so on, confusing cultural background with genetic background.
Then we clamped down even further. During the time of the Holocaust, powerful forces in the United States Government moved to prevent Jews fleeing Hitler from coming here for sanctuary.
Our nation’s skirts are not and have never been clean on this issue.
Given this, we must view the current situation within the context of our (not anyone else’s–our) history–one of partiality, bigotry, and favoritism.
I mentioned in my earlier post that I don’t favor breaking the law, except, of course, for my own convenience.
How may of you have sped down the road at speeds in excess of the posted limit?
(Full disclosure–in the roads of the East Coast, 65 is my personal speed limit. With posted limits under 65, speed limit + 5 mph is my personal speed limit. I’m getting old.)
Well, getting to the point of my question, for years unending, the cops have not enforced the posted speed limit (except possibly at the end of the month . . .)
How many of you, gentle readers, exceed the speed limits knowing that, within five miles over the limit, you will not be touched?
For the last half-century, this nation has not enforced its immigration laws, certainly as regards immigrants from Mexico and Central America.
And a law not enforced is no law at all.
So for all practical purposes, as regards our southern border, we have had no law at all.
THROUGH OUR OWN CHOOSING. Not through anyone else’s choosing.
At the same time, in a parallel universe, Mexico is a nation of poverty and corruption. Without the Great Escape Valve to the North, the Mexican government (not the current administration–the government as a whole) would fall in an instant.
So Mexicans come here looking for work. They find work, and they work hard. Heck, at the cooling tower place, significant numbers of Mexican immigrants (No, I don’t know whether or not they are legal and, frankly, I don’t care) work hard. I’ve watched them work, and, frankly, they work their anatomies off. And they consider themselves lucky to have escaped the poultry industry.
So, are we going to round all these folks up, maybe 12 million or more, and deport them?
Let’s get real. Not gonna happen.
These are, for the most part, good people who just want a piece of the pie, who believe in the American dream (remember the American dream), and who are willing to work for it.
It is not right to penalize them for our malfeasance.
Given that most of these folks are good people who work hard, why the hysteria?
(And with that question I am not referring to those whom I mentioned in the beginning of this comment, when I said, “There are many reasons why persons of good will can be concerned about our porous borders without being bigoted or prejudiced in any way.”)
Why the hysteria?
Because they are brown and don’t speaka da English.
My ancestors spoke English. But they came from England.
My girlfriend’s ancestors, well, some of them spoke English and some didn’t.
I know persons whose ancestors did not speak English. They spoke Italian and didn’t learn English until a later generation.
But they were white.
Frankly, I think we should open our doors again, as they were open at the beginning of the 20th Century, but open them to everyone, not just to persons who are white.
May 22, 2007 at 10:03 pm
No, it is not necessary to continue fighting the last war as we look to our future. If new proposals for our immigration policy are not racially motivated then bringing up the fact that past ones have been is a red herring. And one is free to have bona fide disagreements with any viewpoint on immigration, but crying racism as a blanket retort for any immigration policy you differ with is not helpful to the debate.
Actually, the current immigration discussion is the most wide open debate I think I’ve seen in my adult lifetime. It’s certainly anything but a two-sided “us vs. them” thing. There are all kinds of viewpoints.
My challenge: try to think through a comprehensive immigration policy without bringing up race. It becomes a lot more fascinating that way.
(P.S.: You really don’t care if those Mexicans in the factory are getting a legal wage or not?)
May 23, 2007 at 9:17 am
“No, I don’t know whether or not they are legal and, frankly, I don’t care”
A fine sentiment, but for someone like us, it’s a different story. If Chris has to have a helper, we HAVE to make sure they are legal, & with all the problems, I won’t let him get someone off the corners he knows of, or the Home Depot parking lot. Yes, he’s done it before. I don’t need the hassel, or the expense. So now when he needs help, he’ll get someone from our church, or someone that he’s known for years. And no, when he does get help, we pay by the job being done, not some lower amount because of the color of their skin. Which explains why Gilbert calls every now & again.
Some of us have to excercise caution, just to cover our rears.